From the National Intelligencer,
MONDAY MAY 17
The House then again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. WICKLIFFE in the Chair, on the bill for the removal of the Indians.
Mr. LUMPKIN, of Georgia, addressed the committee about two hours in support of the bill.
Mr. ELLSWORTH of Connecticut, followed in a speech of about an hour against the bill.
Mr. FOSTER, of Georgia, next rose, and occupied the floor about two hours in support of the bill. When he concluded, several gentlemen rose, but
Mr. EVANS, of Me. obtained the floor, and on his motion the committee rose, and
The House adjourned.
The several special orders of the day were then, on motion of Mr. BELL, further postponed, and the House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. WIICKLIFFE in the Chair on the bill to provide for an exchange of lands with the Indian tribes, and for their removal beyond the Mississippi.
Mr. EVANS, of Maine, addressed the committee upwards of three hours in opposition to the bill and in reply to its advocates.
Mr. HUNTINGTON, of Connecticut, followed in a speech of nearly the same length on the same side.
Mr. JOHNS, of Delaware, succeeded, and addressed the committee at great length, also against the bill. [Mr. J. was speaking at 9 o'clock ' the House had not adjourned at 10.]
From the National Journal.
WEDNESDAY, May 19
The House then took up the amendments made in committee of the Whole on the State of the Union on the Indian bill.
The first amendment was agreed to viz. to insert the words 'and territories.' The second amendment, as follows having been read:
Provided, That nothing in this act contained shall be construed as authoring or directing the violation of any exiting treaty between the U. States and any of the Indian tribes.
Mr. STORRS, of New York moved to amend the amendment by adding,
'Nor to authorize the occupation or purchase of any lands belonging to the Cherokee Nation, or any possessory interest or claim therein of any individual Indian or Indians, without the consent of the said nation given by treaty for that purpose.'
Mr. BATES then addressed the House for about two hours and a half in opposition to the bill.
Mr. CROCKET then rose and stated his determination to vote against the bill.
Mr. TEST then obtained the floor, but yielded for a moment while Mr. HEMPHILL sent an amendment to the Chair, which he requested to have read, as one which he intended to offer at a proper time. This amendment provides for the appointment of three Commissioners to be send to the Indian nations, and ascertain if it was their desire to remove, and to examine the lands west of the Mississippi, etc.
Mr. EVERETT then spoke in position to the policy of the bill for about three hours. It was near 6 o'clock when he closed.
Mr. WILDE then took the floor in defence of the bill, and continued to address the House until half past seven o'clock.
Mr. DESHA called for the previous question, but subsequently withdrew the call.
Mr. CARSON renewed it, but it was not sustained by the House.
Mr. TEST spoke for a considerable time in opposition to the bill.
Mr. LAMAR supported the measure.
After another unsuccessful motion for the previous question, the House, at half past ten o'clock, adjourned.
From the National Journal
MONDAY, MAY 24.
The House then proceeded to the unfinished business of Wednesday last, being the bill providing for the removal of the Indians beyond the river Mississippi -- the question pending being on a motion for the previous question. This question being announced by the Chair.
Mr. CLAY moved a call of the House, but the yeas and nays being demanded and ordered on the motion, he withdrew it.
Mr. IRVIN of Ohio renewed the motion, and on motion of Mr. EVERETT of Mass. the yeas and nays were ordered, which being taken, the motion for a call of the House was carried- ayes 165, noes 25.
The clerk proceeded accordingly to call the roll; when Mr. MARTIN remarked, that as almost every member probably in the City had just answered, he moved that the call be discontinued, but the House refused to consent; and the call proceeded, and 198 members answered to their names.
Mr. CARSON moved to suspend further proceedings; ayes 99, noes 86.
On trying the sense of the House on seconding the motion for the previous question, only 78 rose, and the motion was therefore not seconded by a majority of the House.
The question then recurred on the amendment.
Mr. BELL opposed the amendment, and argued briefly that the bill itself proposed an appropriation only to carry into effect existing contracts and treaties with the Indian Tribes according to their construction by the Government, and introduced no new policy as was contended by the opposition to it. Therefore the amendment was unnecessary.
Mr. STORRS replied, and contended that no treaty in existence contained the provision which his amendment proposed and that it was therefore necessary and expedient.
Mr. WAYNE denied what the amendment assumed namely, that the Cherokees were a nation, independent of the State of Georgia. He expressed a determination to take an opportunity of going to the foundation of this question of Indian rights and that whatever credit gentlemen might obtain for a fanciful eloquence, they should not have the benefit of the argument.
Mr. WILDE called for the reading of the eighth article of the treaty with the Cherokee Indians west of the Mississippi, of May 26, 1828, as a reply to the resolution of Mr. STORRS.
Mr. VINTON argued that as that treaty was made by the Cherokees west of the Mississippi, it had no binding effect on the Cherokees remaining on the east of the Mississippi. He commented on that treaty as a direct and gross violation of all justice, and expressed the indignation he had always felt at such an attempt to violate the rights of third persons.
Mr. BURGES contended that the treaty of 1828, was particularly a fraud, a deep and lasting disgrace to the last administration; and that this bill contained, by implication, a confirmation of that fraud, now attempted to be palmed upon this nation, to sustain which opinions he adverted to the history of the treaty and the circumstances growing out of it.
Mr. JENNINGS made a few remarks which were indistinct to the reporter.
Mr. LEWIS opposed the amendment, and argued to show that the treaty which had been denounced, was just and proper, and cited the treaty with the Indians east of the Mississippi, to show that the bill before the House in was conformity to the settled policy of the Government. He read the Journal to show that many gentlemen who opposed this bill, supported precisely the same provisions in 1826, when recommended by a different President; inferred from that, that the opposition to it was a party opposition to the Administration, and to the South; that as this bill was known to be the leading measure of the present President, it was an object of great solicitude with the opposition to defeat it; and therefore called on those who avowed themselves the supporters of the Administration, to sustain this measure; that if they did not, they would be faithless, and traitors to their party. Mr. L. then proceeded at some length to vindicate the policy of the bill, and in reply to Messrs. STORRS AND EVERETT. When he concluded, Mr. STORRS rose and said, that as a gentleman from Pennsylvania, (MR. HEMPHILL,) was about to offer an amendment to the bill, of a more extensive effect, and which would supersede the amendment now before the House, he would withdraw it until the question could be taken, on that which he [Mr. H.] was about to propose.
Mr. EVERETT of Massachusetts, replied briefly to Mr. LEWIS'S reference to himself, in which among other remarks, he observed that, if the provisions of the present bill were precisely the same as those which he had supported in 1826, it was singular that the gentlemen who now advocate this should have voted against that, as was the case with the members from Georgia itself, and he vindicated himself from the imputation of being influenced in his course on this subject by party considerations.
Mr. THOMPSON, of Georgia, followed in a short speech in support of the bill, and in reply to its opponents.
Mr. VINTON, then took the floor, and addressed the House two hours against the bill. When he concluded, seven or eight members rose; but,
Mr. DESHA, having obtained the floor, moved the previous question
Mr. THOMPSON, of Georgia, moved a call of the House.
Mr. LAMAR of Georgia demanded the yeas and nays on this motion, which, being taken, the call was ordered by a vote of 128 to 29.
The roll was then called, when it appeared there were seven members absent, two of whom soon after entered the Hall, and after sometime,
Mr. BROWN moved a suspension of further proceedings, which motion was decided by yeas and nays in the affirmative.
The motion for the previous question recurring the House divided, and tellers being appointed by the Chair, they reported ninety-three for putting the previous question and ninety-nine against it.
Mr. WAYNE of Georgia, then rose and addressed the House an hour and a half in discussing the relative rights of the Indians of Georgia, and of the General Government, and in earnestly advocating the bill, and resisting the arguments of those who opposed it.
Mr. SPENCER of New York, next took the floor and occupied an hour and a half in a review of the topics introduced into the debate, and installing his objections to the bill. He concluded at eight o'clock, when the call for the question was loud and general; and no other gentleman rising to address the House,
The question was put on the amendment reported by the committee of the whole to the bill viz: that, in executing the provisions of the bill, the faith of treaties with the Indians shall not be violated-and concurred in ayes 141, noes 54.
Mr. McDUFFIE, then rose and said, he was satisfied it was the solemn duty of the House, to come to a decision on this subject. He was not going into the argument, but he wished to say this was a practiced question. Whatever we may think here, said he, the State of Georgia has assumed the attitude from which she will not shrink; and if we refuse to exercise the power which we may constitutionally assume on this question; the guilt of blood may rest upon us. I demand the previous question.
Tellers were appointed to count the numbers who reported 97 for the previous question, and 98 against it, so it was not seconded.
Mr. HEMPHILL then rose to propose a substitute for the bill, (which was nearly as its substance could be gathered from the reading of it by the Clerk) to provide for the appointment of three Commissioners by the President and Senate, not to be residents of any of the States immediately interested, who should go through the Indian Tribes, east of the Mississippi, and ascertain their disposition to emigrate -- then to explore the country west of the Mississippi, and ascertain the quality and extent of the country, which could be offered to the Indians, in exchange for their lands east of the river, and on what terms they would make the exchange, dispose of their improvements, etc., and remove, and report the whole to the President, to be laid before Congress at its next session; and appropriates 30,000 dollars to carry the provision into effect.
Mr. H. said it was not his intention to go into a discussion of the bill. But this had been called a party Question, and the advocates of the bill had appealed to the friends of the Administration to support the President in this measure. He denied that party feelings influenced him. The President had not a better friend than himself in the whole nation; but on a question involving, as this did, the moral and political character of the country, he could not yield up his judgment to his regard for the President. Mr. H. then briefly explained the object of his amendment, which was to obtain full information, and enable Congress to act understandingly on the important questions. The original bill proposed to place half a million of dollars in the hands of the Executive, to effect a removal of the Indians. This was too great a responsibility for any Executive. The House should take the measure into its own hands, and indicate the mode, and manner in which it should be effected.
Mr. THOMPSON, of Georgia, said he had forborn to take up the time of the House in delivering his views at large on the bill, and he was therefore privileged, he thought, in again demanding the previous question, [which would of course put by the amendment.] Accordingly,
Tellers were appoint to count the House, who reported 93 in favor and 93 against the previous question. The SPEAKER voted in the affirmation -- so the motion for the previous question was seconded.
Mr. VINTON moved a call of the House, and Mr. WILLIAMS demanded the yeas and nays, which, being taken, the motion for a call of the House was negatived -- ayes 80, noes 115.
Mr. MILLER, of Pa., then said he could not permit the main question to be taken without one more effort to arrest this measure. He therefore moved to lay the bill on the table, and called for the yeas and nays, which were ordered, and being taken, the motion was negatived -- ayes 94, noes 103.
Mr. BATES then observed that there was a gentleman absent from indisposition who could not vote tonight on the bill, and to give him an opportunity tomorrow, moved an adjournment, and called for the Yeas and Nays, which were ordered; and the question being put, the motion was negatived -- Ayes 84, Noes 112.
The previous question was then put 'Shall the main question be now put?' and the votes being 99 to 99, the SPEAKER voted with the ayes, and decided the question in the affirmative.
So the main question was at last put 'shall the bill be read a third time?' and was decided in the affirmative by the following vote:
YEAS -- Messrs. Alexander, Allen, Alston, Anderson, Angell, Archer, J.S. Barbour, P.P. Barbour, Barnwell, Baylor, Bell, Jas. Blair, John Blair, Bockee, Boon, Borst, Bouldin, Brodhead, Brown Chambreleng, Campbell, Carson, Chandler, Claiborne, Clay, Coke, Coloman, Connor, Hector, Craig, Robert Craig, Crawford, Crocheron, Daniel, Davenport, W. R. David, Desha, DeWitt, Drayton, Dwight, Earl, Findlay, Ford, Foster, Fry, Gaither, Gilmore, Gordon, Hall, Hammons, Harvey, Haynes, Hinds, Hoffman, Howard, Hubbard, Isacks, Jenning, R.M. Johnson. Cave Johnson, Perkins King, Lamar, Lea, Lecompte, Loyal, Lewis, Lumpkin, Lyon, Magee, Martin, Thomas Maxwell, McCoy, McDuthe, McIntre, Mitchell, Monell, Nuckolls, Overton, Pettis, Polk, Potter, Powers, Ramsey, Rancher, Roane, Scott, Wm. B. Shepard, Shields, Speight, Richard Spender, Sprigg, Standifer, Sterigere, Wiley Thompson, Trezvant, Tucker, Verplanck, Wayne, Weeks, C.P. White, Wickliffe, Wilde, Yancy -- 102.
NAYS-- Messrs, Armstrong, Arnold, Bailey, Noys, Barber, Barringer, Bartley, Bates, Beekman, Burges, Batman, Cahoon, Childs, Chilton, Clark, Condret, Cooper, Cowles, Crockett, Creighten, Crowingshield. John Davis, Deberry, Denny, Dickinson, Doddridge, Dorsey, Dudley, Duncan, Ellsworth, George Evans, Joshua Evans, Edward Everett, Horace Everett, Finch, Forward, Gorham, Green, Grennell, Hawkins, Hemphill, Hodges, Hughes, Hunt, Huntington, Ihrie, Ingersall, Thomas Irwin, William W. Irwin, Johns, Kendall, Kennon, Kincaid, Adam King, Leiper, Letcher, McHary, Martindale, Lewis Maxwell, McCreery, Mercer, Miller, Muhlenberg, Norton, Pearce, Peirson, Randolph, Reed, Richardson, Rose, Russel, Aug. H. Shepperd, Seemes, Sill, Samuel A. Smith, Ambrose Spencer, Stanbury, Stephens, Henry R. Storrs, Wm. L. Storrs, Strong, Sutherland, Swann, Swift, Taliaferro, Taylor, Test, John Thomson, Tracy, Vance, Varnum, Vinton, Washington, Whittlesey, Edward D. White, Williams, Wingate, Young--97.
[The only variation between the last vote and the preceding votes on the previous question 'c. was, that just before the final vote, Mr. DICKINSON (who had been previously absent from indisposition) came in and voted against the third reading-- and Messrs. DWIGHT, FORD, RAMSEY, and SCOTT, who voted against the previous question, because, as was understood, it superseded Mr. HEMPHILL'S amendment, voted for the third reading, after that amendment was set aside by the previous question
At 10 o'clock, the House adjourned.